[Talk] Re: Cheaper conferences Not in commercial hotels would help BSD.

[David McDonald]

It interests me.

But with universities now having a commercial focus, can we be sure that
conferences in a university will be any cheaper?

In relation to a comment by Frank Crawford:

	"Greg, as you know, a lot of the cost also goes into printing,
	especially of the proceedings, food, and international speakers.
	All of which are the same whatever the venue."

As for the cost of providing the food - if I was attending a University
conference and the University food facilities were made available to me (I'm
not sure who would permit or deny this, so I don't know how feasible it
might me), then I'd be very happy to use the University facilities. Surely
if we were charged normal street prices, these costs should not be
exorbitant.

As for social interaction after hours, we could just hang out at a bar.
(Nobody has to drink, but enough probably would to make the barman happy).

Dave McDonald

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey [mailto:Greg.Lehey at auug.org.au]
> Sent: Saturday, 21 September 2002 1:53 pm
> To: AUUG Talk List
> Subject: [Talk] Re: Cheaper conferences Not in commercial hotels would
> help BSD.
> 
> 
> FYI.  This went round the FreeBSD lists earlier today.  It's a thing
> that we've been talking about on the AUUG Board for some time.  Note
> particularly the reference to GUUG, our German counterpart, who do a
> two conferences a year with different focus.  Is this something that
> would interest people?
> 
> Greg
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from Julian Stacey <jhs at berklix.com> -----
> 
> > Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:24:42 +0200 (CEST)
> > From: "Julian Stacey" <jhs at berklix.com>
> > To: advocacy at freebsd.org
> > Cc: Andreas.Lohrum at tngtech.com, "Gary Jennejohn" <gj at freebsd.org>
> > Subject: Cheaper conferences Not in commercial hotels would 
> help BSD.
> >
> > _Cheap_ conferences _Not_ at hotels would help BSD promotion !
> > Un-necessarily expensive conferences impede participation & 
> interest in BSD.
> >
> > 20 years ago:
> >   - Unix was commercial, but
> >   - Unix conferences were at Univesities, cheap to attend, & if an
> >     employer wouldn't pay, you could book a few day's holiday, & pay
> >     your own way.  Local students & ex students of 
> whichever University
> >     campus - Not Hotel - where the conferences were held, could also
> >     often smuggle in free for a few lectures, boosting interest :-)
> >
> > Now:
> >  -  The software's free, but
> >  -  The conference fees are prohibitively expensive :
> >     Facilities are provided by expensive hotels speialising 
> in providing
> >     luxury facilities at high prices. Indicators of Bloat 
> can also include
> >     `Partner Programmes'  ( It didn't need money to a
> >     partner programme, when a group of us plus assorted
> >     girlfriends organised our own picnic in a park at the European
> >     Unix User Group in Paris in '82; & it cost nothing when German
> >     Unix User Group conference attendees were invited to join the
> >     Munich BSD group's monthly drinks session aprox 3 years ago ).
> >   - Bloated company paid conference fees is not the way it 
> has to be.
> >
> > A cheaper more inclusive solution for some conferences is:
> >   - Back to the Universities !  Dump the hotels !
> >   - Use University campuses, lecture theatres & student halls of
> >     residence & student campus bars during student holidays.
> >   - Get a free or near free lecture room from a University 
> during a vaction,
> >     reward their generosity with equally free or near free lecture
> >     hall entry to students & local ex students & organisers 
> of the host
> >     college, & give the student halls of residence the profit of our
> >     overnight accomadation, food, & coffee/ beer bar income.
> >   - If local organisers are needed, let students do it, 
> they'll be more
> >     grateful for any money, be cheaper & likely more 
> intelligent & or more
> >     commited to the technical agenda of the conference, 
> than random hotel
> >     conference employees.
> >   - Keep it _Cheap_ so that people who aren't sure yet if 
> they're interested
> >     in BSD, can still drop by for a few lectures.
> >   - Keep it _Cheap_ so people not flush with cash can 
> afford to attend.
> >   - Keep it _Cheap_ to not be too far out of kilter with 
> _Free_ software.
> >   - Further suggestions at
> > 	http://yetanother.org/
> > 	http://www.yapc.org/venue-reqs.txt
> >
> > Heavy fees tilt the balance & possibly contributory worth 
> of who can attend:
> >   Students:
> >     Will only attend if cheap, may then discover BSD, write 
> code for BSD,
> >     &/or take a BSD Cdrom to install in new companies 
> during holidays,
> >     part time jobs, etc, seeding the BSD market.
> >   Unemployed & under-employed programmers:
> >     (yes there are some, see jobs at freebsd list if in doubt )
> >     They will have some time on their hands, but not much 
> money to pay
> >     bloated conference fees on top of travel/accom. costs)
> >   Employees of firms on hard times:
> >     Probably also find it hard to justify heavy conference 
> fees, yet their
> >     employers would be more receptive to free BSD 
> software/solutions.
> >   Employees of firms doing well:
> >     Probably find it easiest to get conference fee travel & 
> accomodation paid,
> >     yet harder to get employers to use BSD (after all, one 
> attraction of
> >     Free Software is that you avoid wasting money buying Microsoft).
> >
> > Some may say: "Cheap venues won't impress businessmen" -
> >   (A laudable target ! they're my consultancy customers :-) But I
> >   don't believe we should burden all our BSD conferences with
> >   expensive fees on that argument. At least do what German Unix
> >   User Group http://www.guug.de does: alternate [slightly cheaper?]
> >   (spring technical) & more expensive (Autumn full blown) 
> conferences.
> >
> > "We get people anyway, there's no problem" would be 
> complacently wrong:
> >   BSD remains fringe, & high conference fees can only deter those
> >   with an initialy casual / light interest.  (the fees certainly
> >   deter me, a dedicated Unix person for 20+ years.)
> >
> > To open one's mouth, is of course to be invited to contribute to a
> > solution :-) So if there's serious interest in a European BSD
> > conference in Munich, I'd willing to investigate what the local
> > universities could offer during holiday periods.
> >
> > If people want another EuroBSD in the UK, University of Kent at
> > Canterbury does a roaring trade in vacation conferences, & was one
> > of the first Unix centres in the UK, & would probably be happy to
> > seriously way underbid previous BSD hotel venues such as Brighton.
> > Copious public terminals of course, I suspect all study bedrooms on
> > campus are net- wired by now.
> > 	http://www.ukc.ac.uk/hospitality/holiday/bedbreakfast.html
> > 		20 pound / night
> > 	http://www.ukc.ac.uk/hospitality/conference/availability.html
> > 		57.5 per night 	(Day delegates 25 inc VAT)
> > Presumably many other Universities around the world offer similar
> > good deals during student vactions.
> >
> > Compare prices above with last California or next EuroBSD, 
> Hotel based pricing:
> > 	http://www.eurobsdcon2002.org/hotelreservation.html
> > 		EUR 130 per night (excl. breakfast and excl. 5% 
> city tax)
> > 		+ American breakfast - EUR 16
> > 		less hotel bulk pre-book discount
> > 	http://www.eurobsdcon2002.org/registration.html
> > 		250 Euro for 3 day conference booked before October 18th
> >
> > Note the UKC University price may or may not have a 
> discount negotiable,
> > I don't know, not tried, but UKC price _Includes_ cost of conference
> > facilities, so only extra fees BSD volunteer organisers 
> would need to
> > collect would be out of pocket phone charges, & maybe more cash
> > for guest speaker accom. & travel if desired.
> >
> > Exchange Rate Aprox: 3 Euros = 3 US Dollar = 2 Pounds Sterling (UK)
> >
> > Comparison:
> > 	Hotel 3 * 146 * 1.05 guess discount 0.7  + 250 Euro = 570 Euro
> > 	Uni.  3 * ( 57 + 5 for org. expenses + 15) * 1.5 
> exchange = 340 Euro
> >
> > 15 = a guess at extra surchage to subsidise guest speaker
> > travel &/or accomodation.
> >
> > Accomodation in Univesities might be more basic, but wher 
> it really counts:
> > tiered lecture theaters & net access, they'll be way ahead 
> ! Plus ...
> > Aprox. Half Price !!  Lets have some BSD conference in 
> Univesities, not Hotels !
> >
> > Julian Stacey	jhs at berklix.com   Computer Sys. Eng. & 
> Unix Consultant, Munich
> > 	Ihr Rauchen = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz !  
> Schnupftabak probieren.
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo at FreeBSD.org
> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
> 
> ----- End forwarded message -----
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